Hardware Hopup's

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jrrdw
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:31 pm

Hardware Hopup's

Post by jrrdw »

Are there parts diagrams available for the Space Navagator? What if any are repair options available?
Tehrasha
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Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by Tehrasha »

I dont believe they are ever meant to be repaired.
Not easy to disassemble, and not much for user-servicable parts inside.

If you want to see the insides.... Google Translate of German Disassembly
Spacemice -- Input devices for a 3D world.
jrrdw
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by jrrdw »

Thanks for the link...Yea, they can be repaired if parts can be purchased. :wink:
Hypersonic
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by Hypersonic »

I would really like to swap in stiffer springs into the Space Navigator. I'm wondering how to do this without destroying the device (obviously I'd be throwing the warranty out the window.) Would all I need to do is swap the 3 spiral springs with higher spring constant springs?

Examining those disassembly photos, I'm wondering whether those caramel colored bars provide spring-back when pressed against, or simply dampening?
The 3 pillars appear to act as the stoppers, along with the raised triangle in the bottom middle.
The 3 spiral springs would definitely be used for spring-back for Tz, Rx, and Ry
The 3 spiral springs could possibly provide spring-back for the other axis as well, but what kind of spring action does a spiral spring provide perpendicular to it's own axis?
Are there springs not visible in these photos?

The inner optics isn't quite what I expected. It seems to be measuring the position of 3 bars, each with a horizontal slit and a vertical slit. Each slit is next to a lamp creating a beam of light and where that beam of light hits the sensor on the opposite side determines where the bar is. Horizontal slit determines the vertical position, and the vertical slit determines the horizontal position. I suppose it doesn't matter if the light beams cross paths, like in Ghostbusters! I wonder if the knob cover is needed to keep it dark enough for the light sensors to function properly? Would precision be increased if the slits were thinner, along with brighter lamps to still provide sufficient photons/sec to the light sensors?
jrrdw
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by jrrdw »

You can adjust the sensitivity in the software but if that doesn't give you enough one way or the other...Rather then desoldering the 3 springs get some coil springs of the same diameter and length and slip them in with the factory springs. It looks to me like those springs are completeing a curcuit so be careful not to short anything.

As for the rest I can't say until I have it in hand and inspecting it for myself. Pictures help but having it in hand is another.
Hypersonic
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by Hypersonic »

While I could be wrong, I don't believe that the coil springs nor any part of the top assembly conducts any electricity. The sole function of the top assembly is purely mechanical: to move the slits of the 3 bars around. Just adding springs sounds like a good idea, but there doesn't seem to be ample space to add springs, looks like you'd have to swap out the existing springs.

One problem I forsee: would the solder be strong enough to keep stiffer springs in place with years of use? I'd imagine the circular wafers would be sufficiently strong though. Maybe hook/loop the end of each spring around the top and bottom wafer to help keep it in place, loop twice (3 holes total) to totally secure it. Not an easy task though if it's a stiff wire!!! I'm not sure if the bottom hook would interfere with electronics on the underside of the bottom wafer however.

The current springs seem to have a spring constant of around 2100 newton/meters, and stop at around 3.4 newtons. I was hoping to try springs with a spring constant of around 12300 newton/meters, and stop around 19.6 newtons (ya I'd need a clamp to hold the 3Dmouse in place.) Same movement range as the current springs. The stiffer springs would need to fit in a relatively small space. There are many factors of coil springs: material, wire gauge, coil diameter, and overall length. I'm no spring expert though, I have no idea what type of coil I should seek, other than the spring constant and it must fit in the confined space

The Space Navigator has great optics, it simply needs stiffer springs for better performance with human hand interfacing. It would be nice if 3DConnexion had different versions: loose spring and stiff spring (otherwise identical.)

Loose spring: have to move far to achieve target force (time consuming), snaps back slowly (time consuming), and there's not much counter force feedback due to low forces.
Stiff spring: don't have to move far to achieve target force (not time consuming), snaps back quickly (not time consuming), and there's excellent counter force feedback due to higher forces.

Even if you only use 3.4 newtons on stiff springs you still get the benefit of saving time getting to your target forces.
jrrdw
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by jrrdw »

Doesn't the software fine tune enough for your liking? As far as solder goes if you do it right that one little solder joint will hold 10 springs with ease...The spring wire would break first.
Hypersonic
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by Hypersonic »

Software can't make-up for some hardware aspects.

Putting 10 springs on the same 2 joints won't reduce the stress on those 2 joints, although it would decrease stress per spring. However having 10 springs each with their own 2 joints might work. If there was space, but there is very little space to work with. Each spring would have substantial diameter. Solder joints might work OK for 3.4 Newtons, but maybe not 20 Newtons. There are other ways to do it that doesn't involve solder nor multiple holes, if you could find or manufacture the parts
jrrdw
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by jrrdw »

One problem I forsee: would the solder be strong enough to keep stiffer springs in place with years of use?
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by jrrdw » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:48 am

Doesn't the software fine tune enough for your liking? As far as solder goes if you do it right that one little solder joint will hold 10 springs with ease...The spring wire would break first.
jrrdw Posts: 5Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:31 pm

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by Hypersonic » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:39 pm

Software can't make-up for some hardware aspects.

Putting 10 springs on the same 2 joints won't reduce the stress on those 2 joints, although it would decrease stress per spring. However having 10 springs each with their own 2 joints might work. If there was space, but there is very little space to work with. Each spring would have substantial diameter. Solder joints might work OK for 3.4 Newtons, but maybe not 20 Newtons. There are other ways to do it that doesn't involve solder nor multiple holes, if you could find or manufacture the parts
I was merely answering the question about the solder joints holding stronger spring tension. In no way was I trying to suggest using 10 springs.
Hypersonic
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by Hypersonic »

Oh ya, I realize you meant it could handle 10 times the force. I was merely exploring the possibilities of using many springs.

10 springs each adding their own force to the joint would result in 10 times the force, with the other ends of the springs not connected to the same object. With the other end of the springs all connected to the same object the one force would be distributed amongst the springs.
jrrdw
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by jrrdw »

One thing the pics don't show are the 3 phillips head screws hidden under the plastic cap on top the knob. Just incase anyone was wondering how to get the knob off without breaking it...A drop of hot glue and a nail or screw makes a good cap removal tool... :mrgreen: I didn't go any further, found that out by accident. hehehe
Hypersonic
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by Hypersonic »

Thanks for the info! I take it those 3 screws screw into the top of the 3 stopper pillars, to secure the rubber knob onto the moving top assembly. Does the cap securely snap back into place after you take it off? Since the hard plastic cap is so smooth and relatively flat, I wonder if you could also take it off with a suction cup, so you don't have to worry about wiping off the glue afterward. The edge is very flush with the top of the rubber knob making it very difficult to pry it off with a flat head screwdriver.
jrrdw
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Hardware Hopup's

Post by jrrdw »

Yes, it snapped right back on, there are 3 small locateing pins on the bottom that line it right up.
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