Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

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David.P
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by David.P » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:22 pm

Oh if you at 3DX only could f*cking do something about the useless helicopter navigation with your products in Google earth, and make it object centered again as it used to be -- and still is in Sketchup, after all those useless years we have lost with this annoying navigation behaviour after all.

UtaSH
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by UtaSH » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:32 am

The support for the 3D mouse in Google Earth was implemented by Google. We do not have access to their code. Please address this issue with Google.

David.P
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by David.P » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:44 am

This is YOUR job.

I pay for the Controller, you guys fix the issues

Nonetheless, I HAVE contacted Google already long ago.

Tehrasha
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by Tehrasha » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:53 am

If it were a 3DConnexion plug-in for GoogleEarth, then sure... but it is hardly 3DConnexion's job to fix another company's poor implementation of their SDK.
Spacemice -- Input devices for a 3D world.

David.P
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by David.P » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:05 pm

Whatever.

It is my job to pay for the product, and to file bugs.

It is the manufacturers job to fix them. I don't know and care what a SDK and a plugin is. I need my product to work for the money, and that's it.

It stops working and doesn't get fixed for years: I complain, rant, and start to write angry and bad product reviews on Amazon.

That's the deal.

Tehrasha
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by Tehrasha » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:48 pm

David.P wrote:Whatever.
It is my job to pay for the product, and to file bugs.
You are free to do so, I am just trying to explain to you that your anger is misdirected.
It is the manufacturers job to fix them. I don't know and care what a SDK and a plugin is. I need my product to work for the money, and that's it.
Some understanding of how the product works and why it works (or doesn't) is helpful in troubleshooting the issue. You might not know what an SDK or a plugin is, but others do, and they are trying to explain the issue to you.

The manufacturer deals with the hardware, and the software driver. In some cases, like high-end 3d modeling apps, they will write a plugin, to add functionality for their device, to the program. They also provide an SDK (software developers kit) for other software developers, which gives them the basic tools to add functionality to their programs.

In your case, Google has used the SDK to add 3dmouse support to SketchUp and GoogleEarth.
There is nothing wrong with the mouse hardware. No changes have been made to the driver, apart from recognizing newer models of mouse. The issue is entirely with the way that Google has decided to interpret data coming from the mouse.
It stops working and doesn't get fixed for years: I complain, rant, and start to write angry and bad product reviews on Amazon.
You can go ahead and complain and leave bad reviews for the spacemice, but you are blaming the wrong end of the equation. The equivalent would be that a new game you bought runs slowly on your computer, and complaining to Dell (or whoever) do something about it.
Spacemice -- Input devices for a 3D world.

David.P
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by David.P » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:27 pm

You're wasting my time, and yours.
Some understanding of how the product works and why it works (or doesn't) is helpful in troubleshooting the issue.
Yes. But I don't have that understanding and I don't have resources to spare to aquire that understanding in order to do someone else's job whom I paid to do this job.
The equivalent would be that a new game you bought runs slowly on your computer, and complaining to Dell (or whoever) do something about it.
That's complete bullshit, since this is exactly not what I do but what you want me to do: complain at Dell [Google] when the game [Mouse] is broken.

I exactly do NOT complain at Google when the mouse is broken, but at the manufacturer of the mouse. If the mouse manufacturer thinks Google needs to add something, then it is THEIR job to make Google do so. If they can't, it is THEIR job to find a workaround (like driver-internally translate the controllers movements such that it emulates object centered movement on an helicopter centered software like GE, which is exactly what I have been forced do awkwardly with my hand instead for years now).

And now please stop wasting even more of my time explaining me the third time why it should be MY job to fix 3DX's broken functionality.

Tehrasha
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by Tehrasha » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:43 pm

David.P wrote:You're wasting my time, and yours.
Only because you chose to remain ignorant.
The equivalent would be that a new game you bought runs slowly on your computer, and complaining to Dell (or whoever) do something about it.
That's complete bullshit, since this is exactly not what I do but what you want me to do: complain at Dell [Google] when the game [Mouse] is broken.
Wow, you have real trouble with analogies. My comparison was complaining to Dell (a hardware company) to do something about a slow running game (software, ie: GoogleEarth).
And now please stop wasting even more of my time explaining me the third time why it should be MY job to fix 3DX's broken functionality.
At no time did I say that it was your job to fix it. I was simply pointing you to the right place to complain.
At least I agree with you about one thing... Apparenlty I am wasting my time.
Spacemice -- Input devices for a 3D world.

David.P
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by David.P » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:28 am

Tehrasha wrote:
David.P wrote:
Tehrasha wrote:The equivalent would be that a new game you bought runs slowly on your computer, and complaining to Dell (or whoever) do something about it.
That's complete bullshit, since this is exactly not what I do but what you want me to do: complain at Dell [Google] when the game [Mouse] is broken.
Wow, you have real trouble with analogies. My comparison was complaining to Dell (a hardware company) to do something about a slow running game (software, ie: GoogleEarth).
You're the one who is having major trouble with analogies. You are comparing a Dell computer [which is supposed to be able to do EVERYTHING] to a 3D mouse [which is supposed to do ONE THING], only because both are hardware.

Your analogy is completely crooked for another reason: a game RUNS ON a computer, i.e. is an ADDITION to the computer. A 3D mouse RUNS ON a 3D application, i.e. is an ADDITION to the 3D application.

What you are saying is that
  • "a game is an addition to a computer",
  • "a 3D application is an addition to a 3D mouse", therefore
  • "complain at the manufacturer of the addition in each case".
This is utter bullshit. It is absolutely clear that "the 3D mouse is the addition to the 3D application" and not the other way round [as you keep claiming]. And here we come back to what has been already said:
David.P wrote:I exactly do NOT complain at Google when the mouse is broken, but at the manufacturer of the mouse. If the mouse manufacturer thinks Google needs to add something, then it is THEIR job to make Google do so. If they can't make Google do so, it is THEIR failure, and THEIR job to find a workaround (like driver-internally translating the controller movements such that they emulate object centered movement on a helicopter centered controller interface like GE -- which is exactly what I have been forced to do awkwardly with my hand instead for years now).
Btw., the above is already the second time that I (unlike you) am actively taking part in FIXING the SpaceNavigator/Google Earth problem. The first time I fixed it, completely on my own, was here.

So stop blaming since I have been as constructive and productive as anyone in the present issue. The only one who is passive and doing NOTHING since years is the one whose bloody job it would be und in the first place: 3DConnexion.

UtaSH
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by UtaSH » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:15 am

Hello David.P,

are you working with the setting "Reverse Controls" activated in Google Earth?
GE Reverse Controls active.jpg
GE Reverse Controls active.jpg (71.46 KiB) Viewed 20078 times

David.P
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by David.P » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:35 am

No I don't.

Still, when I move around in Google Earth with the SpaceNavigator (especially terrible when rotating), the earth moves and rotates with respect to the intersection of the vertical axis below my imaginary helicopter with the earth surface (which is [A] annoying and useless).

Contrary in Sketchup, everything rotates and moves with respect to the center of the window, or with respect to the selected object (which is great).

The fact that is the way to go for 3D Map applications as well you can easily see from here, where you are also in a helicopter, but when you rotate (by clicking on the compass icon arrows) not the helicopter rotates about its vertical axis (that would be the useless variant [A] from above) but instead and beautifully, the object of interest (the house) rotates such that you can see it from all sides -- this of course again being variant from above aka "great".

SpaceNavigator in Google Earth however has been behaving like variant (annoying and useless) for many years.

Hope that this finally helps to clear things up.

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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by UtaSH » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:59 am

Sorry, I should have asked you to please activate that option and then check if the navigation in Google Earth is as you want it.

David.P
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by David.P » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:04 am

Sorry yes.

Of course it is activated. My above description relates to the "invert" option being activated.

Hypersonic
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by Hypersonic » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:22 am

You want to move the Earth relative to the camera, not the camera relative to the Earth? As in Sketchup.
Polar or Cartesian? Would the camera be the center of the ordinate system (important factor if Polar.)
Chuck Norris doesn't run over the Earth, Chuck Norris spins the Earth under Chuck Norris!

That example you linked to is rotate camera around a point from a fixed distance with 'forward' always facing the point.
In that case you'd always have to point out where you want this point to be.
Currently that point is always the Earth's center. Google Earth uses Polar coordinate movements.

I must say the movement in the stand-alone version of Google Earth doesn't do 3DMice justice.
However, as Utash said, 3DConnexion doesn't write the code that translates 3DMice movements into camera movements in Google Earth.
You could try your luck at https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!forum/earth

Terminology
Center Pole (CP) vector that originates in center of the Earth and goes through the center of the camera
Forward Vector (FV) vector that originates in the center of the camera and points in the direction the camera is facing

The stand-alone version movement

There are only 2 rotations allowed (no roll)
Heading: Rotate FV around CP
Tilt: Adjust the angle between FV and CP (now it only allows 0 to 90 degrees, the shackles tighten!)

Translations
Altitude: move up or down the CP
Forward/Backward: move in the direction of the FV (only the component perpendicular to CP)
Left/Right: perpendicular to Forward/Backward

Low altitude speed slows to a crawl!
There's no inertia option to smooth jerky movement.
There's no top speed controls.

6DOF Google Earth (using the Google Earth Plugin) removes all of these limitations.
Here are two 30fps 1080p videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 87aacPpZIG
There's only two videos now because I'm disappointed with the 60fps videos being downgraded to 30fps on YouTube.
However, when YouTube starts allowing 60fps videos I plan to add many smooth 60fps videos.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2460242,00.asp

Perhaps I'll add options such as move Earth instead of the camera and rotate camera around a model's origin.

David.P
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Re: Sketchup controls similar to Google Earth

Post by David.P » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:16 am

Hypersonic wrote:You want to move the Earth relative to the camera, not the camera relative to the Earth? As in Sketchup.
Yes. And as it used to be in Google Earth up to version 5.2.1.1588:
Image
Perhaps I'll add options such as move Earth instead of the camera and rotate camera around a model's origin.
That would be a Good Thing. However this won't work in the Google Earth application, only in the browser, right?

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