Problem with 3ds Max 9

Questions and answers about 3Dconnexion devices on Windows.

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frayed knot
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Problem with 3ds Max 9

Post by frayed knot »

I just got my SpaceNavigator controller yesterday and I ran into a problem that I don't think has been discussed on here yet. I am trying to move vertices's on an editable polygon in the front and left views. Everything works fine in these views if I haven't touched the Navigator in them i.e. my "y" axis is vertical and my "x" axis is horizontal, the view description actually says "front" or "left" and I have free range of motion. I know the view description defaulting to "user" has already been discussed but my problem is that when it defaults to "user" in those views that the "y" axis becomes horizontal and the "z" axis becomes vertical. This causes me to only be able to move in a sideways direction since movement is limited to the "xy" plane and not the "yz" plane in a two dimensional view. If I keep my hand on the Navigator and put enough pressure in any given direction then the view name changes to "3DXStudio User" and my axises revert back to being in the "y" vertical, "x" horizontal orientation, the second I let go of the Navigator the axises go back to the "yz" orientation. I know this is very long winded and may still be very confusing but does anyone have any idea as to what is going on here.
Wagner
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Post by Wagner »

There is this exact same issue in 3dsmax8.

For example, if you have front, back, left or right viewport and you want to start a spline or any other object type. You cannot model anything if you have touched the navigator. This is really evil thing and makes Navigator pretty much useless tool in 3dsmax if using a lot 2D viewports.

Why does Space Navigator have to change the 2Dviews (front,back,left,right) to USER views after little pan/zoom, it wont happen with mouse so why with Navigator? It really kills the workflow.

I really hope this will be fixed (unless there's option that will fix this already?), my main reason for buying the navigator was using it in 3dsmax.
submono
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Post by submono »

I agree. This is really annoying. I especially don't like the fact that after using the device sooner or later all the 2D viewports are suddenly just titled "user". What's the point of this? If it's a top view I want it to be labeled top view. Nothing else. Certainly there must be a way around this, right?

Thanks, submono
mbonk
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Post by mbonk »

We would really like to fix this as well.

This issue is a limitation of the MAX Api: it is not possible to navigate the views top,bttom,left etc. from a plug-in using the api. The current implementation does something similar to the 'Arc Rotate' tool, without actually rotating.

We have an enhancement request running with Autodesk so that we can finally fix this, but for the current versions its a case of a workaround.

Markus
submono
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Post by submono »

Hi Markus,

thanks for the fast reply and explanation. I cross my fingers for the enhancement request. With current versions do you mean MAX 8 and 9? So chances are that this might not be fixed before MAX 10 or even later :shock: ?

submono
mbonk
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Post by mbonk »

submono wrote:So chances are that this might not be fixed before MAX 10 or even later ?
I am sorry to say, yes. The main reason seems to be it would break the API, which requires a recompile.

Possibly the workaround simulating the mouse has less caveats? One would loose either pan or zoom and no other command could be active, but a top view would stay a top view.

What do you think is more important, and why?

Markus
submono
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Post by submono »

Hmm, not quite sure I understand you. Do you want me to choose between pan and zoom with no other commands active? It's a little bit like asking me if I'd rather loose a hand or a foot and telling me that anyway I won't be able to speak anymore :D

Well, you can't work without pan or zoom. You need both and you need them all the time. I just tried for a few minutes to live without one of them. Nope, can't do.

Why does it have to be zoom or pan exclusively when you simulate a mouse? Can you explain it in more detail? This is important to me because I wanted to upgrade to a Space Pilot but with these limitations I'd rather not.

Thanks, submono
mbonk
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Post by mbonk »

submono wrote:Why does it have to be zoom or pan exclusively when you simulate a mouse?
3ds Max has commands/command modes: to simulate the mouse one needs to activate one of the mouse command modes e.g. pan or zoom and then feed it mouse data i.e. moving the mouse as well will also pan/zoom.


What are the exact issues with the current solution that make it unusable?
submono
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Post by submono »

Hi Markus,

apart from the confusing issue of labeling all orthographic viewports "User", the biggest problem lies in content creation. For instance I can easily create splines, boxes, etc. in all viewports as long as I don't touch the Space Navigator. The moment I do so, I can't create anything at all anymore in most orthographic viewports. I have to press L or F to get the "real" left or front vieport back. Then I can generate objects again.

The weird thing is that it is always working in the top (and bottom) view. There it doesn't matter if it's labeled top or User, if I have used the Space Navigator or not. Does this have something to do with axis constraints?

Anyway, you see that I always have to press an extra button to get my orthographic viewports (at least front, left, right) back in working order. And this somehow contradicts the purpose of the device itself.

submono
Tak
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Post by Tak »

And bringing those ortho views back will reset to 0, 0, 0. It means after zooming and panning you'll get back to starting point... :shock:
mbonk
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Post by mbonk »

Tak wrote:And bringing those ortho views back will reset to 0, 0, 0. It means after zooming and panning you'll get back to starting point... :shock:
Yes, thats annoying. If it stayed put then we could simply change the user view back to top in the plug-in and no one would know the difference.

Markus
mbonk
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Post by mbonk »

submono wrote:Does this have something to do with axis constraints?
Do you think it coud also be related to the grid?

Anyway, if I read this correctly, the foremost priority is to be able to create objects using the orthographoc views even if this means a trade off on the navigation side, right? The reason being that switching back to a view where creation is possible undoes the navigation anyway.


Markus
submono
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Post by submono »

Hi Markus,

I think the problem is not grid related. I think it's in the way the driver works with 3dsmax. Yesterday I tried the Space Navigator under real project conditions and found it cost me more time than it is saving me with all the strange things happening that are mentioned here and in other posts.

Especially the sudden object jumping that can't be undone. This is annoying enough with simple geometry that can be easily realigned but if suddenly some nurbs blend surfaces jump into nirvana, it's a real time killer.

The driver for 3dsmax needs some real work done on it. Now with more and more people buying affordable Space Navigators you'll get a lot more feedback like this. Don't get me wrong, I want to use and love this device because the idea is just great, but at the moment I think it can't be really used in a production workflow, at least not with 3dsmax.

Is the driver for 3dsmax developed by 3dconnexion or by Autodesk through the SDK? If it's with you guys, it would be great to bring someone from software development into this discussion. I'm sure that a lot of people out there (including me) will want to work with you to make this a real killer device. But until then I'll stay with the Space Navigator and won't upgrade to the Pilot.

Thanks, submono
submono
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Post by submono »

Hello? Anybody out there? :?
mbonk
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Post by mbonk »

The issue with the orthagonal views (Top,Left etc) has been logged as Issue 4249
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