3Dconnexion/Blender Beta Feedback

[znissan]

A public beta will be available starting August 7, 2007 that provides 3Dconnexion device support within Blender for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux!

Information and links for downloads will be available at http://www.3dconnexion.com/solutions/blender.php
starting August 7.

If you are a Blender user and have a 3Dconnexion device, we invite you to download and start flying and having fun. If you are a Blender user and do not have a 3Dconnexion 3D mouse, you can buy one for only $59 from our website!

We look forward to your feedback.

Ziva Nissan
3Dconnexion, Inc.

[twmffat]

Hi Ziva
Tried two versions of blender NDOF, and two versions of the plugin (two different dates anyway). Blender starts to load and then disappears. I loaded Python 2.5.1 but to no avail.

[Steve F]

twmffat,

I couldn't get it to work until I updated the SpaveNavigator driver. Now works like a charm.

[twmffat]

Thanks Steve
Downloadeded and updated and everything works now.

twmffat,

I couldn't get it to work until I updated the SpaveNavigator driver. Now works like a charm.

[mzungu]

Just wondering why the fly mode and the turntable modes are separate in Blender. This is not the case with the other CAD apps I have used (Inventor, SolidWorks, CATIA...) where the full 6 degrees are all concurrently available (except in 2D modes). Is this just the nature of the 3D space in Blender? If so, can it be changed or are we stuck with it?

Its a big limitation, IMHO.

BTW, I do like the translation mode, tho I don't know how used it will be.

[visualgroup]

Can anyone confirm that this plugin does not work with the Spaceball 5000 USB device?

[ettore]

Can anyone confirm that this plugin does not work with the Spaceball 5000 USB device?

Honestly I didn't try that, but I will. I can tell you though that the device is still supported by our drivers on Windows and Linux, so in theory it *should* work. I'll get back to you.

BTW are you on Windows or Linux?

[Steve F]

Just wondering why the fly mode and the turntable modes are separate in Blender. This is not the case with the other CAD apps I have used (Inventor, SolidWorks, CATIA...) where the full 6 degrees are all concurrently available (except in 2D modes). Is this just the nature of the 3D space in Blender? If so, can it be changed or are we stuck with it?

Its a big limitation, IMHO.

BTW, I do like the translation mode, tho I don't know how used it will be.

I think it depends on what you are modeling. If you are modeling a game level or architectural layout, fly mode allows quick reposition of the view. If you are modeling a character or single object, then turntable mode is often more efficient.

When you say other apps have the full 6 degrees are all concurrently available, how is that different than fly mode?

I would like to know more about the difference between designing in CAD apps and 3D apps. I've used TurboCad for years, but only for 2D engineering drawings. I wouldn't use anything but a mouse for that kind of drawing. For 3D, I want to be able to move the view anywhere and any orientation. I would think this allows the most flexible freedom of movement possible. I tried Maya and found it only has turntable mode for rotation (maybe it has other modes, but I didn't find anything in the documentation or tutorial). I think Blender's having both modes available makes it more useful and not a limitation at all.

I hope you can help me understand better how its a big limitation.

Steve F

[ettore]

Just wondering why the fly mode and the turntable modes are separate in Blender. This is not the case with the other CAD apps I have used (Inventor, SolidWorks, CATIA...) where the full 6 degrees are all concurrently available (except in 2D modes). Is this just the nature of the 3D space in Blender?

We are talking about two different things here. One problem is how your view moves relative to the world, and the other is how many degrees of freedom you're going to use to achieve that.

Turntable Mode is first and foremost a mode where you move the world with the device, with the added *feature* of leaving the horizon horizontal (like a turntable I guess). If you remove the last feature, therefore enabling 6DOF, you are still in the same world-related mode that in Blender is called Trackball mode. That's it. There are use cases where Turntable is more preferable than Trackball.
Other apps may not have this terminology but may have a "disable roll" feature, like what we did in Google SketchUp. But it's the same stuff.

Now, Fly Mode must be separate from all that because is conceptually something different. You move around the world with a flycam instead of moving the world.

If so, can it be changed or are we stuck with it?

Its a big limitation, IMHO.

I hope I explained why we need this distinction.

I think it depends on what you are modeling. If you are modeling a game level or architectural layout, fly mode allows quick reposition of the view. If you are modeling a character or single object, then turntable mode is often more efficient.

I agree. I invite you guys to see what we did in Google SketchUp. There's more or less everything basic we need: World (Object) based mode, Fly mode, and the ability to disable roll and go into Turntable kind of mode. This has of course nothing to do with performace (Blender is faster anyway).

[visualgroup]

Can anyone confirm that this plugin does not work with the Spaceball 5000 USB device?

Honestly I didn't try that, but I will. I can tell you though that the device is still supported by our drivers on Windows and Linux, so in theory it *should* work. I'll get back to you.

BTW are you on Windows or Linux?

Thanks for the reply. I'm on WindowsXP with the latest 3DConnexion drivers (3.4.2). Everything works fine in Pro/Engineer and SketchUp but nothing in the 2.44 Blender NDOF build. The device doesn't appear to be picked up by the plugin.

I've been using my Spaceball with the original Blender NDOF build from December 2006 (Blender 2.42) and it works fine.

I really hope it's something that can be easily fixed.

[mzungu]

Okay, let me clarify a bit after having toyed with it a little more. Firstly, I think the two current modes offered are good to have as is. These shouldn't be changed, as they are useful for various specific application as has been mentioned. (Its good to know that these were done intentionally and are not a limitation of the Blender 3D space.)

I would only request that another mode be offered that adds the "twist" (or rotation along the view's axis) to the turntable mode. This mode is good in that the "pivot point" of the view is somewhere other than the view's (or camera's) centerpoint itself. Thus the object upon which the view is focused remains centered as you rotate the view. (But moves as you pan the view - panning moves the pivot point.)

It would be nice to have a button or command that allowed you to "recenter" the view at a user-defined point, be that the currently selected object or vertex, the 3D cursor, or whatever (several options would be good here.) This should be available for both turntable mode and the additional mode that I'm requesting. For fly mode this wouldn't necessarily apply, tho for transform mode it might be handy as well, defining the point at which the rotation transform is centered.

When you say other apps have the full 6 degrees are all concurrently available, how is that different than fly mode?

As I've mentioned above (and hopefully to clarify) in 3D CAD apps this is different from Blender's fly mode in that the pivot point of the view is somewhere other than the viewport's own center point. Think of the view as a camera. Fly mode rotates the view around the camera's centerpoint, allowing the user to "look around" so to speak (how your own head works .) Turntable mode assigns another rotational centerpoint, usually centered on the object of interest (some geometry that's being viewed) allowing you to kind of "orbit" an object while keeping it centered in your view.

The difference between Blender's turntable mode and your typical (3D) CAD mode is that in Blender they appear to have disabled the rotation around the axis of view (I think) where in CAD all 6 degrees are avialable in combination with an assignable center of interest (rotational centerpoint). Its this functionality that I'd like to see added as another "mode".

[lukep]

I agree. I invite you guys to see what we did in Google SketchUp. There's more or less everything basic we need: World (Object) based mode, Fly mode, and the ability to disable roll and go into Turntable kind of mode. This has of course nothing to do with performace (Blender is faster anyway).

As the coder for blender who added most of the functionality (fly mode is Steve work), please remember this is early alpha code. We did release that at 3DConnexion request to have something to show on siggraph.
Btw, i want to publicly thanks them for their help in this project.

World 6DOF mode is planned, and also making things work in sculpt mode.
You already have a true 6DOF in transform object mode.
Will world 6DOF and turntable be joined as a single mode is still in question.

I'm still investigating other features too, especially how we can use the device in the 2D views too.

[mzungu]

Btw, i want to publicly thanks them for their help in this project.

Ditto!!!

World 6DOF mode is planned, and also making things work in sculpt mode.
You already have a true 6DOF in transform object mode.
Will world 6DOF and turntable be joined as a single mode is still in question.

Good to know! I wouldn't say combine them, unless you do a toggle for twist like they've got in sketchup.

I'm still investigating other features too, especially how we can use the device in the 2D views too.

Keep a "re-center rotation point" button/option in mind as I mentioned in my post above!

BTW, great work so far! Thanks a ton!

[ettore]

As the coder for blender who added most of the functionality (fly mode is Steve work), please remember this is early alpha code. We did release that at 3DConnexion request to have something to show on siggraph.

I fully agree. I can't stress this enough and I repeat it to everyone. All of this is experimental. Alpha stuff at best.
I also made a note on BlenderBuilds.com to make clear that this was/is NOT a 3Dconnexion "solo" effort. It's great to see many people contributing code. (I only did some of the plugins side.)

Btw, i want to publicly thanks them for their help in this project.

No, it's us thanking you. I personally very much appreciated the can-do attitude of the Blender Foundation that allowed this to happen.

[mobed]

Hi,

I installed the NDOF Version of blender and the plugin but it does not work.
I also installed Phyton 2.5.1 on my xp Home Edition but i couldn't get any chance.

Is there a restriction for the PE version or xp Home Edition or is it a fault of my understandig (because my Englisch is not so good)

Im using the Driver Version 6.4.4
3Dx Ware Releas 3.4.2
Firmeware Rev. 3.18

Thank's for any answer.
mobed